Dear World
This Link below goes directly to the official Website of ABC TV Australia and Susan's Interview with their famous Science Show "Catalyst" about Out-of-Body Experiences
Susan Elsa TV INTERVIEW 2009- ABC TV Australia's "Catalyst" Science Show
Interview filmed: November 2009
Interview aired on ABC TV: February 2010
Narration
Switzerland has a proud scientific history. It boasts the largest number of Noble Prizes in the world, per head of population…Albert Einstein did his PhD here in Zurich. But I’ve come to find out about…out-of-body experiences!
-Graham Philips, Host of ABC TV's Catalyst Science Show-
In a personal Interview at the beginning with Camera's off, deciding what is going to be filmed of Susan's unique experiences, she told Mr. Graham Philips and the Filming Crew about her premonitions and dreams she had of future events. To be specific, she claimed to have dreamed exact details of Michael Jackson's nearing death!
Original Link: http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2816872.htm
For Educational Purposes only and scientific research and discussions, here are the original comments from viewers of the TV Show aired: (Courtesy of ABC TV Australia and CATALYST)
Text Copy from: www.abc.net.au
YOUR COMMENTS
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- 21 Oct 2011 10:56:07pm
I've learned how to have OBEs thru concentration. It
is just a matter of learning how to fall asleep while staying conscious
of the sleep process. But I could not tell if it was my imagination or
if it was real until I was able to prove it to myself. One time while
out of my body, I went into the living room where my parents were
staying and examined in details what it is they were doing. My dad was
sitting at a desk working on his computer, and I was astonished at the
clothes he was wearing, as these were clothes I thought had been thrown
away a long time ago. (I'm 33 yo - I had not seen the clothes he was
wearing since the age of 12 or so..!). I then looked at my mother, and
lo and behold, while I saw her physical body asleep, I also saw her
"astral" body. She was talking to whatever her mind was projecting in
front of her. Her astral body did not interest me much. I was more
looking at her physical body, as I wanted to be able to recall exactly
how she was. She had her arm in a funny position, almost un-natural, and
her hair was sticking out at an angle, and the blanket was stuck under
her chin. I looked again at my dad, exactly how he was, looked one more
time at my mom's astral body, and floated back inside my body. Once back
in the physical, I was excited but also scared to open the door to my
living room. Not knowing what I would find on the other side. As I
walked in, my dad turned to me, WEARING THE CLOTHES I had seen him wear
in the astral. I was absolutely speechless. He was at the desk, working
on his computer.. In the exact same position. He only said, shhh - your
mum is sleeping, do not make any noise. I turned to the other side of
the living room, only to find my mom with HER ARM in that SAME awkward
position, HER HAIR sticking out exactly as I had seen it, and the
blanket under her chin. Of course, I could not see her astral body, but
I knew where it was..
Now, this is my story. I know it to be true because I have experienced it. It does not matter to me if people believe me or not, I know it to be true.
Out-of-body experiences ARE REAL. But to know it, you must have one, and then be able to prove it to yourself.
I would never try to prove it to someone else. Because I could not - no matter what I say I saw, people would try to explain it so that they don't have to face the fact that there is so much that we don't know.
I am a scientist - molecular biology. And everything I study, everything I see is a proof to me of intelligent design.
In ancient times, the scientists were some types of priests because they understood that to understand Life, we also need to understand the spiritual.
Nowadays, scientists feel they must be atheists to be good at what they do.. Not realizing how much more they miss by discarding the spiritual side of life: such as intuition (how many discoveries happened because of that!?! And how do you explain intuition if not by explaining we
Now, this is my story. I know it to be true because I have experienced it. It does not matter to me if people believe me or not, I know it to be true.
Out-of-body experiences ARE REAL. But to know it, you must have one, and then be able to prove it to yourself.
I would never try to prove it to someone else. Because I could not - no matter what I say I saw, people would try to explain it so that they don't have to face the fact that there is so much that we don't know.
I am a scientist - molecular biology. And everything I study, everything I see is a proof to me of intelligent design.
In ancient times, the scientists were some types of priests because they understood that to understand Life, we also need to understand the spiritual.
Nowadays, scientists feel they must be atheists to be good at what they do.. Not realizing how much more they miss by discarding the spiritual side of life: such as intuition (how many discoveries happened because of that!?! And how do you explain intuition if not by explaining we
- 21 Oct 2011 12:28:12am
Contrary to what is believed today I think there is
much more than just this physical world. Anyone who's had a real out of
body experience will have felt that it is not something that just
happens in the mind. With the right techniques this is something you can
verify yourself. The scientists in this video are playing tricks on the
physical brain and theorize that this must be what Out of body
experiences are, but they're not.
I would advise everyone who is interested in this to research this for yourself, through practice.
I would advise everyone who is interested in this to research this for yourself, through practice.
- 28 Oct 2010 7:59:18pm
I had a motorcycle accident years ago and suffered a
Brachial Plexus injury to my (R)arm and suffer quite badly from phantom
pain.
I have seen documented and demonstrated that a mirror box with your good hand mirrored in place of your bad hand can be a total but temporary relief for the phantom pain and in fact give you the sensation of movement in your bad hand.
This research explains that phenomenon to me more than I have ever seen it explained.
I think that as a spin off to the research that is being done the scientists ought to keep this phenomenon in mind in relation to nerve damaged patients.
I have seen documented and demonstrated that a mirror box with your good hand mirrored in place of your bad hand can be a total but temporary relief for the phantom pain and in fact give you the sensation of movement in your bad hand.
This research explains that phenomenon to me more than I have ever seen it explained.
I think that as a spin off to the research that is being done the scientists ought to keep this phenomenon in mind in relation to nerve damaged patients.
- 01 Sep 2010 8:27:56am
iF YOU DO NOT LEAVE THE BODY WHY DO YOU SEE
EVERYTHING AS A PLANE VIEW? IF IT IS A ILLUSION WHERE DOES THE PLANE
VIEW COMES FROM (BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IN REAL BODY'S
POSITION)
- 18 Jun 2010 2:24:05am
Great ... psychology squeezing the very last specks of magic from the world.
Shame they are not researching something more important like MS or Parkinsons or alzheimer's! Waste of space.
Shame they are not researching something more important like MS or Parkinsons or alzheimer's! Waste of space.
- 20 Mar 2010 11:17:23am
All these so-called out-of-body experiments show is that the brain can be induced to misinterpret sensory input.
Having had an out-of-body experience- it seems to me quite different-I didn't feel my body, just watched it from above.
Having had an out-of-body experience- it seems to me quite different-I didn't feel my body, just watched it from above.
- 23 Feb 2010 1:39:53pm
When a scientist replicates a spiritual experience
using science they automatically believe that it disproves the spirtual
experience. - see James Randi.
It doesn't.
They have just proved they can replicate it but haven't actually disproved anything!
It doesn't.
They have just proved they can replicate it but haven't actually disproved anything!
- 22 Feb 2010 11:23:03pm
Whilst this report on OBE's might have given a
possible explanation for some types of so called "out-of-body
experiences" in my opinion and experience there is far more to it as one
guest suggested.
There is a whole spiritual side to it which science cannot measure because the only things science can measure and observe is physical external things. Whereas the key to fundamentally understanding obe's is through practice of an internal science.
Every human being has an obe every time their physical body falls asleep. Usually though we are completely unaware of the process, we go through it unconsciously and have unconscious dreams instead of seeing where we really are. Scientists studying someone having an obe will only see someone who is asleep, they cannot know what is happening internally.
However it is possible to train ourselves to fall asleep consciously and be aware of the whole process. I and many others have done this and experienced it many times. You know through having the experience yourself that it is not a mere illusion. Any scientist that wants to study obe's should do so through experiencing it themselves. There are courses and books available that teach how to do it.
The dimensions of space and time are known to science. Science also postulates in quantum physics the likelyhood of there being a fifth dimension due to the way that some sub-atomic particles behave, they appear to be operating under different laws of physics. It is this fifth dimension where obes and near death experiences take place. It is also the same place we go to everynight when we fall asleep and dream or if you are doing it consciously it is also refered to as astral projection or astral travel which is just another way of saying out-of-body experience.
Have you ever been lying in bed thinking whilst waiting to fall asleep and then all of a sudden you get a short but intense falling feeling and your body jolts? That is your astral body entering back into the physical body. The moment before you (your consciousness) were in the astral plane with your physical body asleep but you didn't realise it.
Obes are natural and safe, we do it every night already except unconsciously, but it is far better to be conscious of what is going on. Then we can use it to our advantage and that is really what it is for. It is a tool for our spiritual evolution which I think is an essential part of human evolution but scientists don't get anywhere near knowing it unless they practice it for themselves.
There is a whole spiritual side to it which science cannot measure because the only things science can measure and observe is physical external things. Whereas the key to fundamentally understanding obe's is through practice of an internal science.
Every human being has an obe every time their physical body falls asleep. Usually though we are completely unaware of the process, we go through it unconsciously and have unconscious dreams instead of seeing where we really are. Scientists studying someone having an obe will only see someone who is asleep, they cannot know what is happening internally.
However it is possible to train ourselves to fall asleep consciously and be aware of the whole process. I and many others have done this and experienced it many times. You know through having the experience yourself that it is not a mere illusion. Any scientist that wants to study obe's should do so through experiencing it themselves. There are courses and books available that teach how to do it.
The dimensions of space and time are known to science. Science also postulates in quantum physics the likelyhood of there being a fifth dimension due to the way that some sub-atomic particles behave, they appear to be operating under different laws of physics. It is this fifth dimension where obes and near death experiences take place. It is also the same place we go to everynight when we fall asleep and dream or if you are doing it consciously it is also refered to as astral projection or astral travel which is just another way of saying out-of-body experience.
Have you ever been lying in bed thinking whilst waiting to fall asleep and then all of a sudden you get a short but intense falling feeling and your body jolts? That is your astral body entering back into the physical body. The moment before you (your consciousness) were in the astral plane with your physical body asleep but you didn't realise it.
Obes are natural and safe, we do it every night already except unconsciously, but it is far better to be conscious of what is going on. Then we can use it to our advantage and that is really what it is for. It is a tool for our spiritual evolution which I think is an essential part of human evolution but scientists don't get anywhere near knowing it unless they practice it for themselves.
- 01 Mar 2010 1:06:01pm
Ahh, but scientists can prove that it is an entirely
mental process through one simple experiment... people claiming to have
an out of body experience have never been able to tell researchers what
was on a high shelf in the very same room afterwards.
Besides that, every single symptom and physical effect can be explained and replicated through various processes, as well as the experience on the whole.
If your claim is based purely on this "other dimension" that you speak of (which is NOT the extra dimensions that quantum physics refers to... though, some knowledge of quantum physics is necessary to realize why that's obvious)
Now, there is wiggling room in the claim that this process is spiritual in a sense that cannot be in any way measure through experiment. In that case, however, that means that there cannot be any evidence of it... especially since all of the symptoms of it can be replicated and explained through entirely physical means.
In that case, the burden of proof lies of the people making the claim. That is, if I claim there is a magic teapot that grants wishes in orbit around jupiter, but it cannot be observed through any physical means (except that I KNOW it's there)... you are in no way expected to believe that teapot is there. So... you claim there is some sort of special, spiritual component to this physical phenomenon, yet you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim except that you KNOW it to be so.
Therefore, don't be surprised when people tell you to take your crackpot teapot ideas somewhere else.
Besides that, every single symptom and physical effect can be explained and replicated through various processes, as well as the experience on the whole.
If your claim is based purely on this "other dimension" that you speak of (which is NOT the extra dimensions that quantum physics refers to... though, some knowledge of quantum physics is necessary to realize why that's obvious)
Now, there is wiggling room in the claim that this process is spiritual in a sense that cannot be in any way measure through experiment. In that case, however, that means that there cannot be any evidence of it... especially since all of the symptoms of it can be replicated and explained through entirely physical means.
In that case, the burden of proof lies of the people making the claim. That is, if I claim there is a magic teapot that grants wishes in orbit around jupiter, but it cannot be observed through any physical means (except that I KNOW it's there)... you are in no way expected to believe that teapot is there. So... you claim there is some sort of special, spiritual component to this physical phenomenon, yet you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim except that you KNOW it to be so.
Therefore, don't be surprised when people tell you to take your crackpot teapot ideas somewhere else.
- 10 May 2010 10:58:31pm
uh, i think David was implying that if someone told
you about this magical teapot, your best bet is to find a method of
proving or disproving for yourself such as is in the suggestion that
scientists interested in OBEs actually learn to experience them and
study that experience, rather than studying others who, quite rightly
pointed out, only appear to be sleeping.
If you told me about this wish granting magic teapot in orbit around Jupiter and it really was something of interest to me, I would sincerely ask you for some method in which I could verify that rather than relying on the claim that "if I can't see it, it does not exist". If, however, I were not interested in such a teapot then that claim would suffice to end such discussion. If ending the debate on the existence of magical teapots were my primary interest then I would not only rely on that claim, but I would throw every method of scientific investigation known to me at the postulation of the existence of this teapot in order to achieve my goal of ending the debate.
In this case David states there is a method for science to legitimately study OBEs, yet all I see in this show is the attempt to discredit the experience via a scientific method, which incidentally begins with the hypothesis that OBEs are tricks of the brain resulting in a realistic illusion, therefore condemning the subject to closure before a thorough investigation has even taken place.
If someone told me of a magical teapot I might be more inclined to ask "how do you know this? how can I get one? what must I do?" rather than tell the person to go walking.
After all, a wish granted is a pretty wonderful thing and if someone stated you could have that all the time, would you not be at least a little inclined to inquire?
If you told me about this wish granting magic teapot in orbit around Jupiter and it really was something of interest to me, I would sincerely ask you for some method in which I could verify that rather than relying on the claim that "if I can't see it, it does not exist". If, however, I were not interested in such a teapot then that claim would suffice to end such discussion. If ending the debate on the existence of magical teapots were my primary interest then I would not only rely on that claim, but I would throw every method of scientific investigation known to me at the postulation of the existence of this teapot in order to achieve my goal of ending the debate.
In this case David states there is a method for science to legitimately study OBEs, yet all I see in this show is the attempt to discredit the experience via a scientific method, which incidentally begins with the hypothesis that OBEs are tricks of the brain resulting in a realistic illusion, therefore condemning the subject to closure before a thorough investigation has even taken place.
If someone told me of a magical teapot I might be more inclined to ask "how do you know this? how can I get one? what must I do?" rather than tell the person to go walking.
After all, a wish granted is a pretty wonderful thing and if someone stated you could have that all the time, would you not be at least a little inclined to inquire?
- 18 Feb 2010 7:57:51pm
Has intersting impliccations for training a robot to
be a replicon (simulon) of a human, becuase it implies that a human can
learn to be empathetic to his/her replicon.
- 16 Feb 2010 11:11:33am
Really enjoyed the show. I began having OBE at about
15 and could call them up almost at will. First, it was only in a
particular chair as the family was watching TV. After that I began to
experiment and found it could clear my mind and focus in a particular
way to begin the experience. As I got older I began to 'refuse' to allow
myself to 'go there'.
But, I've just had a try, and it still works.
But, I've just had a try, and it still works.
- 13 Feb 2010 7:43:23pm
Thank you for the interesting segment on OBEs. I
have a couple of comments to make on the assumptions that Dr Phillips
appears to be making about these. First, he appears to suggest that
there is no question of a truly scientific explanation having recourse
to anything like non-physical souls. I hate to be contrary, but I would
like to suggest that this is not so - if the data takes us strongly
enough in that direction, souls it is! We are otherwise being dogmatic
materialists, and very unscientific. Secondly, there is no mention that
there have been numerous careful parapsychological studies done on OBEs
which have shown that people frequently learn facts during an OBE that
would be very difficult or impossible for then to know on the assumption
that it is a pure hallucination. This awkward fact would tend to make
it hard to argue that all OBEs are just the brain tricking us! Susan is
right to defend her experience - nothing a brain researcher can show us
can explain our experience away!
- 16 Feb 2010 2:36:44pm
Agreed Keith (while parking any semantics to be had
around the term 'soul'). The fascinating story did a fine job albeit
incomplete due to the gaping blind spot you've identified.
As covered in an ABC 'Catalyst' episode some years ago, there is strong anecdotal evidence that 3rd person perspective inputs (such as seeing what precise tools a surgeon is using in the operating theatre) can form a component of a subject's near death visualisations. The Catalyst program went on to report a hypothesis based on quantum theory... It might be that the scientifically elusive 'self' is formed in some way by quantum computational stuff that in the way of things quantum can have an ambiguous location a la the Heisenberg Principle (being the very same phenomena by which lasers have been successfully teleported in the lab).
Dr Sam Parnia at the University of Southampton is currently conducting a verifiable study of 'what is being seen' during near death experiences. Perhaps the results due in 2011 will be worth Catalyst's attention in the name of a more thorough reporting.
As covered in an ABC 'Catalyst' episode some years ago, there is strong anecdotal evidence that 3rd person perspective inputs (such as seeing what precise tools a surgeon is using in the operating theatre) can form a component of a subject's near death visualisations. The Catalyst program went on to report a hypothesis based on quantum theory... It might be that the scientifically elusive 'self' is formed in some way by quantum computational stuff that in the way of things quantum can have an ambiguous location a la the Heisenberg Principle (being the very same phenomena by which lasers have been successfully teleported in the lab).
Dr Sam Parnia at the University of Southampton is currently conducting a verifiable study of 'what is being seen' during near death experiences. Perhaps the results due in 2011 will be worth Catalyst's attention in the name of a more thorough reporting.
- 12 Feb 2010 2:13:51pm
I enjoyed the episode in which you were able to enlighten us into scientific explanations of OBE experiences,
which I saw on the Catalyst Program.
I have been having OBE's for many years, the first being in 1989.
I fully understand that when I have tactile hallucinations that my physical body is actually in motion,
creating the 'illusion' that the movement is actually taking place in my out of body.
It was great to see this confirmed with your research!
I am hoping you may be able to enlighten me on two things.
The first, whilst bizarre, may have the simplest explanation, and the second is a little more complex.
1/
Toward the end of one OBE I experienced last year I found myself, seemingly prematurely, awaken from the experience.
I was not sure if I was back in my body, because I was conscious, my eyes were open, I couldn't move my head,
but I could see clearly around my room.
I felt paralysed, except for my arms, and being able to have eye movement.
(incidentally, a nuerologist diagnosed me in 1990 as having sleep paralysis)
To assure myself that my OBE had finished I waved my arms in front of my face.
I was in absolute shock to experience that whilst I was waving my arms in front of my face, I could not see them,
yet everything alse was clear. I repeated this about 3 times to no avail.
I felt I was in limbo, experiencing a kind of death.
I panicked, and closed my eyes and tried to relax, and eventually was back to normal.
It was a frightening experience like I had no arms, and the waving were from phantom limbs.
What explanation could you subscribe to this?
2/
Secondly, on a number of occassions I have experienced an OBE without leaving my body.
My functioning 'out of body', is still within my body.
The above (1) is perhaps some type of example of this. Similar, however, not the same.
In these instances I recieve an incredible energy from within my brain, that is transferred to my hands.
My hands feel an incredibly amount of what seems powerful magnetic energy.
In these circumstances I am able to manoevere my hands 'out of body hands' (my actual hands are motionless)
Using my discretion I move them about one inch above my skin to a position which I gain most control.
Kind of like using the controls of a Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulator (T.E.N.S unit)
If I move them too fast, they become painful, and if they are too close to the skin, they lose energy.
I then manoevere them over my body and the magnetic energy seems optimum.
I have on the odd occass
which I saw on the Catalyst Program.
I have been having OBE's for many years, the first being in 1989.
I fully understand that when I have tactile hallucinations that my physical body is actually in motion,
creating the 'illusion' that the movement is actually taking place in my out of body.
It was great to see this confirmed with your research!
I am hoping you may be able to enlighten me on two things.
The first, whilst bizarre, may have the simplest explanation, and the second is a little more complex.
1/
Toward the end of one OBE I experienced last year I found myself, seemingly prematurely, awaken from the experience.
I was not sure if I was back in my body, because I was conscious, my eyes were open, I couldn't move my head,
but I could see clearly around my room.
I felt paralysed, except for my arms, and being able to have eye movement.
(incidentally, a nuerologist diagnosed me in 1990 as having sleep paralysis)
To assure myself that my OBE had finished I waved my arms in front of my face.
I was in absolute shock to experience that whilst I was waving my arms in front of my face, I could not see them,
yet everything alse was clear. I repeated this about 3 times to no avail.
I felt I was in limbo, experiencing a kind of death.
I panicked, and closed my eyes and tried to relax, and eventually was back to normal.
It was a frightening experience like I had no arms, and the waving were from phantom limbs.
What explanation could you subscribe to this?
2/
Secondly, on a number of occassions I have experienced an OBE without leaving my body.
My functioning 'out of body', is still within my body.
The above (1) is perhaps some type of example of this. Similar, however, not the same.
In these instances I recieve an incredible energy from within my brain, that is transferred to my hands.
My hands feel an incredibly amount of what seems powerful magnetic energy.
In these circumstances I am able to manoevere my hands 'out of body hands' (my actual hands are motionless)
Using my discretion I move them about one inch above my skin to a position which I gain most control.
Kind of like using the controls of a Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulator (T.E.N.S unit)
If I move them too fast, they become painful, and if they are too close to the skin, they lose energy.
I then manoevere them over my body and the magnetic energy seems optimum.
I have on the odd occass
- 19 Feb 2010 11:51:48am
- 11 Dec 2011 9:07:15am
The 'out of body' perception in trauma is used
within healing meditation processes (similar to Mindfulness meditation
but with different emphasis).
Patiently focussing on the 'out of body image' and using your sensory awarenesss to explore the panic and other emotional and sensory reactions will allow them to settle in many cases. Then the conscious awareness seems to be able to reorganise and can be perceived to move back into the body (so you look out of your own eyes).
This way of meditatively processing the event can result in experiencing a sense of release or 'healing'. People tend to then feel significantly better about the incident. Negative symptoms associated with the experience will tend to dissapate.
Patiently focussing on the 'out of body image' and using your sensory awarenesss to explore the panic and other emotional and sensory reactions will allow them to settle in many cases. Then the conscious awareness seems to be able to reorganise and can be perceived to move back into the body (so you look out of your own eyes).
This way of meditatively processing the event can result in experiencing a sense of release or 'healing'. People tend to then feel significantly better about the incident. Negative symptoms associated with the experience will tend to dissapate.
Can I remind readers that personal anecdotes do not constitute evidence of OBEs. Otherwise my magical OBE sandals would be worth millions on ebay.
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